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	<title>Comments on: The possibility of AvA in EVE.</title>
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	<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/</link>
	<description>I see it, do you see too?</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: EVE Blog Banter #1 - Going For A Stroll Through EVE &#124; I am Keith Neilson</title>
		<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/#comment-54311</link>
		<dc:creator>EVE Blog Banter #1 - Going For A Stroll Through EVE &#124; I am Keith Neilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithneilson.co.uk/?p=416#comment-54311</guid>
		<description>[...] pounding it from space is worth mentioning. I go into more detail regarding this subject in a previous post. Lets just take it as read that I predict that one day (Soonâ„¢) this sort of visceral and fast [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] pounding it from space is worth mentioning. I go into more detail regarding this subject in a previous post. Lets just take it as read that I predict that one day (Soonâ„¢) this sort of visceral and fast [...]</p>
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		<title>By: WiS Preview - Pagina 2 - MMORPGITALIA FORUM</title>
		<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/#comment-54299</link>
		<dc:creator>WiS Preview - Pagina 2 - MMORPGITALIA FORUM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 07:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithneilson.co.uk/?p=416#comment-54299</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] (AvA Combat in Ambulation &#124; I am Keith Neilson)  The possibility of AvA in EVE.  CrazyKinux, in a recent posting, takes a shot a guessing how Avatar versus Avatar (AvA) combat will look and feel in EVE Online. I’ve given this some thought and would like to add my two bits. Well, more like 12 but who’s counting?  First Some Background.  With Ambulation on the horizon, the addition of walking, talking human shaped avatars to EVE Online is one which promises to change the game dramatically for those that decide to use it (it will be optional.) My wife for one doesn’t want to use it, which is a bit odd as the main reason that CCP have decided to do this is because they’ve found that women relate better to a humanoid avatar than they do to a ship.  Initially, Ambulation will a combat free part of EVE, allowing players to walk around stations and deepen the social interactions with each other by meeting up in bars (run by players), buying clothes and other accessories (made by players) and actually having a Corp Office they can sit in and plot galactic domination from.  The developers have decide to leave combat out of Ambulation to begin with because of something they call ‘the teaspoon effect’. This is basically a hypothetical scenario where the leader of one of the player alliances is killed in a station by an assassin stabbing him in the eye with a teaspoon. The way things currently work in EVE, the cloning system (by which players are resurrected with their skills and such intact) only works when a character is in their Pod. Killing a character outside of their pod would result in permanent death, something which CCP will have to find a workaround for if AvA combat is to become a reality.  In the future I fully expect AvA combat to become and integral part of the EVE experience and here’s some ideas for what it might be like.    __________________   Scusa non so chi sei. Mi spiace con te non parlo. [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer" onclick="javascript:urchinTracker ('/outbound/comment/dev.wp-plugins.org');"><img src="http://keithneilson.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] (AvA Combat in Ambulation | I am Keith Neilson)  The possibility of AvA in EVE.  CrazyKinux, in a recent posting, takes a shot a guessing how Avatar versus Avatar (AvA) combat will look and feel in EVE Online. I’ve given this some thought and would like to add my two bits. Well, more like 12 but who’s counting?  First Some Background.  With Ambulation on the horizon, the addition of walking, talking human shaped avatars to EVE Online is one which promises to change the game dramatically for those that decide to use it (it will be optional.) My wife for one doesn’t want to use it, which is a bit odd as the main reason that CCP have decided to do this is because they’ve found that women relate better to a humanoid avatar than they do to a ship.  Initially, Ambulation will a combat free part of EVE, allowing players to walk around stations and deepen the social interactions with each other by meeting up in bars (run by players), buying clothes and other accessories (made by players) and actually having a Corp Office they can sit in and plot galactic domination from.  The developers have decide to leave combat out of Ambulation to begin with because of something they call ‘the teaspoon effect’. This is basically a hypothetical scenario where the leader of one of the player alliances is killed in a station by an assassin stabbing him in the eye with a teaspoon. The way things currently work in EVE, the cloning system (by which players are resurrected with their skills and such intact) only works when a character is in their Pod. Killing a character outside of their pod would result in permanent death, something which CCP will have to find a workaround for if AvA combat is to become a reality.  In the future I fully expect AvA combat to become and integral part of the EVE experience and here’s some ideas for what it might be like.    __________________   Scusa non so chi sei. Mi spiace con te non parlo. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: EVE Centrala Polska</title>
		<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/#comment-54202</link>
		<dc:creator>EVE Centrala Polska</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithneilson.co.uk/?p=416#comment-54202</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Znalaz³em artyku³ traktuj±cy o tym co byæ mo¿e mo¿e siê pojawiæ w EVE. Nie wiem na ile to wiarygodne ¼ród³o ale niektóre informacje wydaj± siê byæ ciekawe. Co¶ tam o zupe³nie nowych klasach shipów jest tak¿e.http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/ [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer" onclick="javascript:urchinTracker ('/outbound/comment/dev.wp-plugins.org');"><img src="http://keithneilson.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] Znalaz³em artyku³ traktuj±cy o tym co byæ mo¿e mo¿e siê pojawiæ w EVE. Nie wiem na ile to wiarygodne ¼ród³o ale niektóre informacje wydaj± siê byæ ciekawe. Co¶ tam o zupe³nie nowych klasach shipów jest tak¿e.http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/ [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/#comment-54192</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 05:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithneilson.co.uk/?p=416#comment-54192</guid>
		<description>As someone said pod pilots are immensely rich compared to normal humans.  I think an additional aspect to EVE and the station environments could be the ability to recruit and train armies.  If these armies could then be fielded in battle it would be much more realistic.

Also if station population became a factor for raising these armies it would add a whole new dynamic to the game, and add mechanics necessary for planetary interaction.  Station managers in 0.0 would have to seed their stations with settlers and give them time to mature in order for them to be able to recruit armies from the stations.  With an over abundance of people in empire space station populations would not be a huge issue, and in some cases pod pilots would be able to recruit from nearby planets.

Army units could be handled similar to Blue prints are now.  With the ability to train the unit to make it more effective, or to arm the unit with more advanced technology.

I think that overall station invasions should be much cheaper then traditional planetary bombardments.  The scope and size of station invasions should be upped to be a lot larger then squad based combat.  If anything squads would be the smallest possible unit of control.  Your strategy would revolve more around sending which armies where.  Whether they need to take the power structures, docking areas, suppress the local population, eliminate military resistance, or weaken the stations shields in preparation for a traditional military environment.

The possibilities are endless, but they will be very limited as game designers since they will be starting off with programing that is not designed for this type of fighting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone said pod pilots are immensely rich compared to normal humans.  I think an additional aspect to EVE and the station environments could be the ability to recruit and train armies.  If these armies could then be fielded in battle it would be much more realistic.</p>
<p>Also if station population became a factor for raising these armies it would add a whole new dynamic to the game, and add mechanics necessary for planetary interaction.  Station managers in 0.0 would have to seed their stations with settlers and give them time to mature in order for them to be able to recruit armies from the stations.  With an over abundance of people in empire space station populations would not be a huge issue, and in some cases pod pilots would be able to recruit from nearby planets.</p>
<p>Army units could be handled similar to Blue prints are now.  With the ability to train the unit to make it more effective, or to arm the unit with more advanced technology.</p>
<p>I think that overall station invasions should be much cheaper then traditional planetary bombardments.  The scope and size of station invasions should be upped to be a lot larger then squad based combat.  If anything squads would be the smallest possible unit of control.  Your strategy would revolve more around sending which armies where.  Whether they need to take the power structures, docking areas, suppress the local population, eliminate military resistance, or weaken the stations shields in preparation for a traditional military environment.</p>
<p>The possibilities are endless, but they will be very limited as game designers since they will be starting off with programing that is not designed for this type of fighting.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/#comment-54190</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithneilson.co.uk/?p=416#comment-54190</guid>
		<description>Good thoughts it sounds good but I have one thing that is a problem. Ok think about this, eve is a *spaceship* game NOT a battlefield game. You just simply can't combine these styles of gameplay it would never work. Simply because after this only half the people will want to fly and the other half stay in ambulation and fight in this way. Now I can understand maybe bar fights and fist fights with another play or two but not what you are talking about it would well quite frankly ruin EVE. So I would never ever ever want this in eve sorry. =(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thoughts it sounds good but I have one thing that is a problem. Ok think about this, eve is a *spaceship* game NOT a battlefield game. You just simply can&#8217;t combine these styles of gameplay it would never work. Simply because after this only half the people will want to fly and the other half stay in ambulation and fight in this way. Now I can understand maybe bar fights and fist fights with another play or two but not what you are talking about it would well quite frankly ruin EVE. So I would never ever ever want this in eve sorry. =(</p>
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		<title>By: Ushatuhkwa</title>
		<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/#comment-54181</link>
		<dc:creator>Ushatuhkwa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithneilson.co.uk/?p=416#comment-54181</guid>
		<description>Something to keep in mind, would be the infinitely cheap value of human life in eve. Look at the price of commodities in the market, then look at the chronicles and the starting character atributes. 10,000 isk is enough to send someone through your capsuleer academy of choice, get trained, and graduate with 8,000 isk balance in your wallet.

As I posted on the Eve-O forums earlier,

"Let's say we come to the day where there are 5 million people on the server.

5 million capsuleers

Each inhabited planet in Eve has over 500 million people, and there are over 5,000 solar systems that are inhabited. Let's go with High capsuleer numbers, to low population. So let's assume only one planet on each solar system is sparesly populated.

You have then, say five million capsuleers, for a population of 2,500,000,000,000 (that's 2.5 trillion people inhabiting the eve cluster) - so that would make for 0.00019999999999999998% of the population being capsuleers.

To put this in perspective, the 8,000 isk you started as a newbie was the remainder of a 10,000 isk family fortune inheritance that was enough to put you through school, and get you a basic frigate.

To say that capsuleers are Gods among men would be an understatement. We can buy and sell scores of mercenaries with the equivalent price of two capacitor boosters. Why in the world would we stoop so low to want to carry a gun and go shooting people in the face? The poorest of us can make any station manager tremble in fear of making us unhappy and having to report to his superiors that a capsuleer was unhappy with his service.

Even low-sec stations would consider being visited by a capsuleer enough to kick everyone out of the bar and put more security than God around to make sure that their capsuleer doesn't get their boots dirty. On the off chance that you decided to tip them 3,000 isk."

1 million isk would be more than enough to set a "commoner" up for life, ensure that all his debts are paid, make sure he can get a swell pad planetside, servants for three generations, and all his children living comfortably for a couple generations.

With that in mind, why the hell would we, as pod pilots, even bother assaulting a station, when we can just send several hundred mercenary units in for the price of one the "cheap" clones that you speak about.

I think this is part of the reason for the current mechanics of station capture, and one of the biggest barriers to FPS or AvA style combat in eve. Not just the mechanics of "how", but the justifications of "Why".

The resources we command, as capsuleers, are so far beyond the understanding of the "common man" - that you could probably recruit several willing armies for the cost of a cruiser.

As such, the idea of the pod pilot as a "grunt" in any capacity in terms of ground-warfare is laughable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something to keep in mind, would be the infinitely cheap value of human life in eve. Look at the price of commodities in the market, then look at the chronicles and the starting character atributes. 10,000 isk is enough to send someone through your capsuleer academy of choice, get trained, and graduate with 8,000 isk balance in your wallet.</p>
<p>As I posted on the Eve-O forums earlier,</p>
<p>&#8220;Let&#8217;s say we come to the day where there are 5 million people on the server.</p>
<p>5 million capsuleers</p>
<p>Each inhabited planet in Eve has over 500 million people, and there are over 5,000 solar systems that are inhabited. Let&#8217;s go with High capsuleer numbers, to low population. So let&#8217;s assume only one planet on each solar system is sparesly populated.</p>
<p>You have then, say five million capsuleers, for a population of 2,500,000,000,000 (that&#8217;s 2.5 trillion people inhabiting the eve cluster) - so that would make for 0.00019999999999999998% of the population being capsuleers.</p>
<p>To put this in perspective, the 8,000 isk you started as a newbie was the remainder of a 10,000 isk family fortune inheritance that was enough to put you through school, and get you a basic frigate.</p>
<p>To say that capsuleers are Gods among men would be an understatement. We can buy and sell scores of mercenaries with the equivalent price of two capacitor boosters. Why in the world would we stoop so low to want to carry a gun and go shooting people in the face? The poorest of us can make any station manager tremble in fear of making us unhappy and having to report to his superiors that a capsuleer was unhappy with his service.</p>
<p>Even low-sec stations would consider being visited by a capsuleer enough to kick everyone out of the bar and put more security than God around to make sure that their capsuleer doesn&#8217;t get their boots dirty. On the off chance that you decided to tip them 3,000 isk.&#8221;</p>
<p>1 million isk would be more than enough to set a &#8220;commoner&#8221; up for life, ensure that all his debts are paid, make sure he can get a swell pad planetside, servants for three generations, and all his children living comfortably for a couple generations.</p>
<p>With that in mind, why the hell would we, as pod pilots, even bother assaulting a station, when we can just send several hundred mercenary units in for the price of one the &#8220;cheap&#8221; clones that you speak about.</p>
<p>I think this is part of the reason for the current mechanics of station capture, and one of the biggest barriers to FPS or AvA style combat in eve. Not just the mechanics of &#8220;how&#8221;, but the justifications of &#8220;Why&#8221;.</p>
<p>The resources we command, as capsuleers, are so far beyond the understanding of the &#8220;common man&#8221; - that you could probably recruit several willing armies for the cost of a cruiser.</p>
<p>As such, the idea of the pod pilot as a &#8220;grunt&#8221; in any capacity in terms of ground-warfare is laughable.</p>
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		<title>By: mandrill</title>
		<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/#comment-54180</link>
		<dc:creator>mandrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithneilson.co.uk/?p=416#comment-54180</guid>
		<description>Thanks hyperforce, I'm still reading through the chronicles (I'd much rather there was a dead tree collection of them) and so welcome any correction of details I might get wrong. Your correction also neatly removes what I thought was a barrier to third person action combat in EVE :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks hyperforce, I&#8217;m still reading through the chronicles (I&#8217;d much rather there was a dead tree collection of them) and so welcome any correction of details I might get wrong. Your correction also neatly removes what I thought was a barrier to third person action combat in EVE <img src='http://keithneilson.co.uk/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Hyperforce99</title>
		<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/#comment-54179</link>
		<dc:creator>Hyperforce99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithneilson.co.uk/?p=416#comment-54179</guid>
		<description>Actually in several backstories and chronicles (also featured in one of the stories in an EON magazine 

(where some guys pathways get scrambled during a bad resurection and he's forced to live a 'normal life' for the rest of his life... until they manage to undo the mistake and a friend shoots him in the head to 'force' him to resurrect.)

Thus, people with pod implants can be brought back if they are killed outside of they're pod. 

It might have some side effects as death in a pod is generally much quicker than if you were to say... bleed to death by the hypothetical teaspoon scenario

How this works exactly I don't know, but i've never seen any writing saying its NOT possible to be resurrected if your not in a pod, and several pieces of official writing say that it is possbible.

On the backstory about PODS it says that the BRAIN FLASHING technology is used in pods (more specificly POD IMPLANTS in conjunction with PODS) because usuage in normal vehicles like cars could cause someone to be flashed TO EARLY when he might not die (but flashing kills the user anyway :S), Or the system could flash him to late causing him to experience his death after the resurrection and thus have a very traumatic experience engraved in his memory.

The reason Pods use the technologie is because if the hull of a pod is breached theres 0% chance the pilot will survive the ordeal, and thus flashing a mind would be perfect at that time. 0% chance of survival, but not yet dead.

I hope that made sense.

Thus, your conclusion that one can only resurrect if one is killed in a pod is false.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually in several backstories and chronicles (also featured in one of the stories in an EON magazine </p>
<p>(where some guys pathways get scrambled during a bad resurection and he&#8217;s forced to live a &#8216;normal life&#8217; for the rest of his life&#8230; until they manage to undo the mistake and a friend shoots him in the head to &#8216;force&#8217; him to resurrect.)</p>
<p>Thus, people with pod implants can be brought back if they are killed outside of they&#8217;re pod. </p>
<p>It might have some side effects as death in a pod is generally much quicker than if you were to say&#8230; bleed to death by the hypothetical teaspoon scenario</p>
<p>How this works exactly I don&#8217;t know, but i&#8217;ve never seen any writing saying its NOT possible to be resurrected if your not in a pod, and several pieces of official writing say that it is possbible.</p>
<p>On the backstory about PODS it says that the BRAIN FLASHING technology is used in pods (more specificly POD IMPLANTS in conjunction with PODS) because usuage in normal vehicles like cars could cause someone to be flashed TO EARLY when he might not die (but flashing kills the user anyway :S), Or the system could flash him to late causing him to experience his death after the resurrection and thus have a very traumatic experience engraved in his memory.</p>
<p>The reason Pods use the technologie is because if the hull of a pod is breached theres 0% chance the pilot will survive the ordeal, and thus flashing a mind would be perfect at that time. 0% chance of survival, but not yet dead.</p>
<p>I hope that made sense.</p>
<p>Thus, your conclusion that one can only resurrect if one is killed in a pod is false.</p>
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		<title>By: EVE Online &#124; EVE Insider &#124; Forums</title>
		<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/#comment-54178</link>
		<dc:creator>EVE Online &#124; EVE Insider &#124; Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithneilson.co.uk/?p=416#comment-54178</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] - QuoteReport&#160;http://www.crazykinux.com/2008/05/if-eve-online-were-first-person-shooter.htmlhttp://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/I'm at a loss for [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer" onclick="javascript:urchinTracker ('/outbound/comment/dev.wp-plugins.org');"><img src="http://keithneilson.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] - QuoteReport&nbsp;http://www.crazykinux.com/2008/05/if-eve-online-were-first-person-shooter.htmlhttp://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/I&#8217;m at a loss for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: UC2</title>
		<link>http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/#comment-54148</link>
		<dc:creator>UC2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 08:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithneilson.co.uk/?p=416#comment-54148</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] The possibility of AvA in EVE. [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer" onclick="javascript:urchinTracker ('/outbound/comment/dev.wp-plugins.org');"><img src="http://keithneilson.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] The possibility of AvA in EVE. [...]</p>
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